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Forum:Commandos
Operatives Hazza-the-Fox 02:56, August 24, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Ok, so Commandos are basically higher-tier infiltration sabotage infantry. They have a few major differences against previous CNC versions: 1- While CNC opted for more a singular ultra-heavy GI that can, for added bonus, plant bombs on structures, these commandos are more heavily geared to the second part, and are generally only somewhat stronger than a regular infantry unit, but can be made infinitely like a normal unit 2-Instead of dominating infantry but being vulnerable to tanks, the Commandos are much more evened out against all threats- but are, if anything, actually better geared against tanks- IF the commando can get close enough, they can plant C4 on the tank (the exception to the rule is the Mirage Commando- whose sonic weapon does plenty of damage). This is particularly important for taking out a massive siege collumn or an under-protected Devastator. 3-The balance is that the units that infantry are most vulnerable to is actually the GI unit (it also gives GIs a clear role in the game as guards). But as Commandos do need to be able to beat them, their balance is that on a strict dollar-for-dollar value, the GIs' combined firepower is generally much stronger, but overall being more expensive, a Commando must be able to take most of the GIs down before he is killed. Generally, Commandos have shorter range than GIs do, so direct combat is more advantageous in tight spaces than open fields- as they can engage immediately and get more advantage out of the higher damage their weapons do to even the odds- basically like pitting an Apocalypse or Devastator against the same cost of enemy Guardians- the Guardians are probably the Devastator's nemesis- but that doesn't say much. Commandos are also excellent against dogs. This will also require that structures block line of fire (like the Red Alert 2 walls do) 4-The trick is that the Commando is a stealth unit attacking the weakest part of the base. If the commandos are able to shoot over walls, this will actually allow the attacker to use the defender's own defenses and base against him or her own guards. Keeping in mind that placing even cheap infantry around in large enough numbers to fend off one of these units will be pretty tricky- especially while protecting against air, tanks, and infantry rushes. 5-Commandos, along with being radar-invisible and often amphibious, always come with a second ability to equalize their combat potential; Jagers can whip out a sniper rifle, Ivans can plant landmines, and the M-COM can disguise himself. Players who can pull off a good combination of these attacks along with their regular attacks, can take out far more enemy units than they would normally be able to- note that the Sniper rifle has a very slow rate of fire, and thus in itself would probably take out one or two enemy GIs before the group came into range and took the Jager out- but used in comibnation with other attacks (or a few extra jagers) this can prove more deadly an attack plan. VolteMetalic 19:21, August 24, 2011 (UTC): Ok. 1- I see, but "Commando" is meant in C&C as a single unit, which is more stronger than average infantry. Its pretty much the same as yours. 2- I see... Volkov is best against tanks with his arm cannon :D Tanya, she also could plan C4's. Hmm... 3- Volkov and Tanya can also be like this. Tanya's pistols are short-ranged, and Volkov's arm-shotgun, and Tanya is weekly-armoured but fast and Volkov is heavly-armoured and heavly-armed. Also they would be excellenet against dogs. And for the walls, I must warm you, it is not possible to make shroud behind the walls. Paradox tried it, and found out it is not possible to mimic cliffs. And before you will try to think about a way how to achieve it, forget it. If they didnt found a way, no one can :) 4. Hmm... 5. This would be hard to decide on for Volkov and Tanya... And sorry that I put them in all the time, I just cant shake a feeling that people will beat you for no Tanya :P And Volkov is also really popular :) Hazza-the-Fox 06:20, August 25, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox 1- I just added the name 'commando' because these units are sort of the replacement for the 'commando'. "Operative" is probably a better term now that I think about it 2- For heroes it could just as easily work. But ulimately for the operatives, the idea is that they are supposed to be sabateurs who pose the achiles heel in the big tanks- with their anti-infantry skills being nothing more than something to make these units strong enough to break into the enemy base without being completely destroyed by whoever is inside. 3- Walls. That's not a problem- my question is do the walls absorb fire meant for whatever is behind (like in Red Alert 2- the units can see across the walls fine- but their projectiles get blocked by the walls when they try to attack (with the exception of specific units able to shoot over them). 4- ;) 5- :D. I hear you there, and believe me, I do intend to fit them in somehow- we could always just make these units and see how nicely they play with the other units- if things get a little too skewed, we just keep them reserved for specific gameplay modes (a 'regicide' substitute in particular) and the Campaign (when and if we get around to a campaign) VolteMetalic 07:34, August 25, 2011 (UTC): 1- I see. Operatives sounds better. 2- Yeah, I see the point 3- No, they will not be able to fire, they will dont fire through it no matter the wall si there or not. 5- When you put it like this, I am satisfied :) Thought "Crazy Ivan" sounds more like an actual "Hero" unit like Volkov and Tanya will be :) And if the Nazy will be in, their hero will be that Hellboy-Ruprecht guy, with two light SMGs and sword, or swords, will see. For a special gameplay modes it will be great! And for Campaing, it is a MUST :P Hazza-the-Fox 09:24, August 25, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Awesome! 3- So that means infantry generally will simply not be able to shoot a target on the opposite side of a wall? Excellent! Does that exclude infantry whose weapons could actually damage a wall, and units that could potentially throw something over? If so, then that solves a lot of problems! 5- Excellent! And come to think of it Ivan does strike me as a hero; but I think it's best he be a regular- as Soviets' general units need a few plain-clothed guys to offset all the gasmasks, jumpsuits and such. VolteMetalic 10:18, August 25, 2011 (UTC): 3- Well, it is that when you will tell a group of Conscripts to attack enemy Barracks behind a wall, they will have to walk around it to engage. But when you will tell them to attac the wall, they will do it. The walls can be attacked by any fight-capable unit, not like in previous games that only rockets and guns could, and machine guns cant. But it can be coded that machine guns does minimal damage. Units which acts as artillery can attack without walking around or attacking wall, because they are artillery :D 5- Its probably his name that implies that to me :) Hazza-the-Fox 01:33, August 26, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox 3- Awesome! Problem solved then. If the Ivan can simply lob grenades over the walls like an artillery unit, and the Jager simply has really short range with his submachinegun but does a fair bit of damage, I think the walls may very well equalize these units. On that note, do structures obstruct units' line-of-fire as well? 5- Good point! VolteMetalic 03:49, August 26, 2011 (UTC): 3- Yup. Walls are considered as structures, and structures obstruct units their line of fire, so an Devastator will must drive around a War Factory to kill Marine standing on the other side of the structure. Hazza-the-Fox 04:27, August 28, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Excellent! Then that makes our balancing troubles a LOT easier! If the Jager were to have very short range (for a machinegun), but high damage, he could turn the tables considerably on the enemy guards if he manages to break inside the base where all the structures are- as the enemy would be forced to engage him at close range. The Ivan could just lob grenades over the tops and hit the enemy on the other side, if we pull it off... VolteMetalic 08:08, August 28, 2011 (UTC): Thats totally up to you :) If Ivans are strong enoguh to throw the grenades even past walls. Hazza-the-Fox 09:07, August 28, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox I reckon it'd be a good idea that Ivans are strong enough to throw grenades over walls- after all, if the Jagers can safely pick off the outside defenders but must brave the ones inside the walls- the Ivan, by having to charge the outside defenders and take some hits before throwing his grenades (or getting some help with the dogs), he should be able to get a few safe shots of the inside guards in return. And of course, if the idea of a regular dude hurling grenades over walls that even a large tank can't shoot over gets a little too silly, we could modify the Ivan to have some cybernetic implants or assistive mechanisms in his arms... VolteMetalic 10:19, August 28, 2011 (UTC): Thats different. Tanks cna fire only straight on target,, but grenades are thrown, and falls by ballistic trajectory, so I think that that is enough. :) Ivan can normally throw the grenades, since he is specialized with throwing them. Hazza-the-Fox 12:49, August 28, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Just in case the walls are supposed to be super-high and the Ivan was in effect throwing grenades 40 meters high- but yeah, generally throwing grenades over walls is the perfect equalizer to not having a sniper rifle VolteMetalic 13:33, August 28, 2011 (UTC): Ok, this is settled than :) So should we discuss there about Tanya and Volkov as "Hero" units? Hazza-the-Fox 00:44, August 29, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Sure! We could use this thread or a new thread, your call! By the way has my 'nations' page showed up? VolteMetalic 03:38, August 29, 2011 (UTC): Nope, it doesnt. Volkov *Name: Volkov (other names classified) *Nationality: Russia (presumed) *Age: 50s *Military Rank: Colonel *Primary Weapon: Arm Cannon (Anti-armour shells, shotgun ammo) *Secondary Weapons: Explosive Charges Short Bio: Volkov is mysterious figure of the Soviet Union. No one knows from where he comes from or his full name. The known thing is that he is the first fully cybernetic man in the world, resistant as a tank while with mobility of human. in his forearm and elbow has installed a arm cannon, capable of firing high-explosive shells against armoured targets, and against infantry pellets like a shotgun. Even heavily damaged Volkov keeps his agility, and when entering structure he can destroy them by explosive charges strogn enough to ruin building with just one charge. Wears brown trench coat and officer cap, with insignia of Russian colonel. Gloves, and while he has the arm cannon in his forearm, he still has both hands. Only when he is preparing to fire, the cannon little moves up and he rotates the arm down. Left eye is cybernetic (red light), and the metallic "skin" goes up from his neck to chin (he has the whole body metallic, face is the only biological left). If he has hair, I dont know. And no medals, he would lose them quickly when in battle :D He is de facto walking tank, which can garrison structures. For his secondary ability, I dont know yet. I will draw a concept, to better imagine my poor description XD Hazza-the-Fox 11:32, August 30, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Not bad- I might be a little more unorthodox and hand him a massive multi-purpose cannon he lugs around in his mechanical hands. Reason being that cyborg or not- it makes more sense when his weaponry does more damage to targets partly because they're even larger than the likes of those gigantic howitzers the Flak Troopers are lugging around- and as a cyborg- he can easily carry the weight ;) VolteMetalic 11:49, August 30, 2011 (UTC): I dont want him to give some sort of mega-gun, because being a cyborg or not, he is still officer, and he would need both arms for some stuff :D Hazza-the-Fox 14:46, August 30, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox That may be true, just be sure that if his theme is a more discrete nature, his attacks reflect this theme too (of course, one important element to consider is that being a cyborg with a prosthetic eye, he'd naturally have far better than average aim!) VolteMetalic 14:56, August 30, 2011 (UTC): Yeah, he would have a greater fire range with the tank gun than Flak Trooper or Guardian, or equal as them, or as tanks. Shotgun, that is close-ranged, but very deadly. Hazza-the-Fox 02:42, September 1, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox I think it would be interesting if the idea was that his weapons are actually quite 'weak' in the hands of a normal soldier or cyborg- but he compensates this with his prosthetic-enhanced reflexes and augmented skills to use them to a dangerously inhuman expert level ;) VolteMetalic 07:59, September 1, 2011 (UTC): Weapon is weapon, only what matters is skills of the user :P I am thinking about how should the arm actually look like. Hazza-the-Fox 12:12, September 1, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox That's a good question- especially if he's wearing an officer's uniform, firing a retractable arm-mounted gun would need to take into account his sleeves! (of course, that would add an 'element of surprise' to him- and help him outfox the heavy battle-suits and enemy cyborgs) VolteMetalic 12:53, September 1, 2011 (UTC): Exactly, the gun cant be too large, but also not small. Like his whole elbow would be it, and to fire he must rotate the hand down, revealing the barrel, which would also extend from it, and than fire. As A Path Beyond depicted Volkov (and I based on him) is the best depiction of him. Others makes him a nearly bare-chested guy with robotic parts and big machine gun. APB made him more like a Soviet officer wihich looks nearly the same as officer, the differencies is metallic skull and body, only face is "living", both eyes are red optics, and the right arm is cannon, also has the hand. As I want him to be in RAZ (Red Alert Zero) is essentially as he is in APB, with alternations to the gun and face, and the trench coat. I am also trying to think about his secondary ability. It should be something really cool and powerful, but cant think of anything. His weapons are: anti-material armor piercing shells against vehicles (and ships), shotgun-like shrapnel cannon against infantry (it works out when he attacks vehicle, he se anti-material, when he attacks infantry, he uses shotgun-like). As infantry can enter structures (garrisons) and APCs/transports, and plant C4/charges into enemy strucutres like Crazy Ivan or Tanya. Is probably immune to toxical waste (contaminated area, agaisnt RAD gun of Devastator he isnt immune, but resistant as vehicle). And can swim (uses some means build into his body). But what would be his Secondary Ability, I have no idea. Hazza-the-Fox 03:39, September 3, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox That's a tricky one; What if, his normal attack, he was a pure melee unit- that could move fast and use his cybernetic limbs (with built-in-weapons to tear apart groups of infantry- and he planted bombs on enemy vehicles (Commando-style)? To top it off, whether stationary or moving (but not attacking) he will automattically shoot his inbuilt weapons at whatever targets are nearby? Being that he should logically move almost as fast as a terror drone- but take a lot more damage (being an intelligent cyborg more likely to dodge fire)- it would be an interesting way to be attacked? His secondary function switches his weapon mode (Jager-style) to longer-rane suppressive fire (an auto-cannon slung over his back)? I dunno- there are a lot of options. VolteMetalic 08:17, September 3, 2011 (UTC): You want to make him boring? :P Being a pure long-range fighter is bigger fun :D Basic infantry also dont has an option to switch to bayonets, and all other infantry as well. For Secondary, what about kind of big shot from a different place, like his chest, which makes great big BOOOM? :D Hazza-the-Fox 05:22, September 4, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Yeah, I'm making more boring cyborgs that are simply like any other humans but with the advantages of whatever the implants or prosthetics can bring; either speed, slight durability, lots of agility, better aim, ability to lift heavy objects, or the better ability to conceal small weapons. Against a Tesla Trooper, a soviet cyborg using technology like the terror drones would have the advantage of being much smaller, faster, and slightly stronger (as his prosthetic limbs aren't wrapped around existing organic limbs in a giant suit). When it comes to weapons, there is really no reason that any guns a cyborg would get can't be used by either normal infantry for smaller stuff, or a battlesuit soldier (Tesla Trooper) or mounted on a vehicle for the heavier stuff. So instead I'm opting for cyborgs using conventional weapons to a far more skillfull extent, or with less difficulty. Of course, that doesn't exclude an ability to use concealed blades to cut up teams of enemy soldiers... Otherwise, there is little else a cyborg could do exclusively, except with their enhanced minds; Psychic soldiers who need a prosthetic transmitter to their brains to project their psi abilities, and possibly Chrono-Legionairres are mildly cybernetic, to allow themselves to lift the Chronoportation devices and make the intense space-time calculations to teleport and use their weapons. I'm a bit of a joykill, but I can't shake the observation that anything that could actually fit into the spare space in a humanoid prosthetic body without standing out, would need to be really tiny :P VolteMetalic 09:17, September 4, 2011 (UTC): As a melee unit, he will be really boring, especially when you count into it its Soviet Union under who he fights. Soviets represents big guns, so why would their hero has to fight with only his bare hands? :) Why wont he have a tank gun and other weapons in his body, which is in esence a tank? :) Hazza-the-Fox 23:43, September 4, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox That's fine- the only thing we need to accept is that any weapon that could be installed inside a cyborg's body will be actually a very small gun, but anything that a cyborg carries outside his body could be a large gun. If a guy could destroy tanks and armoured soldiers using guns smaller than 9mm pistols it would look a little strange (which was another reason I was resistant to Tanya and other commandos). So for Volkov to be convincing I'd reckon he should use both. VolteMetalic 00:22, September 5, 2011 (UTC): You misunderstood me :) I never said he will have a gun smaller than 9mm pistol, but that his arm will be the cannon :) Ofcourse, it will be larger than average arm, but it will pretty much keep human's size, and some motoric functions so the hand will be there, and fully working. When he wants to fire, by using the mechanics, more advanced than of Terror Drone, the wrist will disconnect from the limb, and move down, opening the way for the barrle, which will slide up, and Volkov is ready to spread terror :D For the caliber of the weapon, it would be around 65-80mm, which is quite a big caliber, and when combined with the advanced technology of magnetism and electricity, gun is in fact "railgun", or "Gauss cannon/coilgun", giving it incredible penetrating power. And if the shell is designed to withstand the pressure of the velocity, and have some high-grade explosion, it could be a great weapon against tanks :) While it is smaller caliber than used in tanks of this time, with the new ammo type and hyper-velocity ejection, it makes for it :) And when it switches to shotgun-mode, the projectiles are launched in more slower rate, so it can spray out the enemy. For an outer weapon, I dont know what that could be, personally I see him with only the weapons he has in himself, but I am not against giving him an extra weapon he would carry normally. And reloading, after each shot he makes, he must load a new shell on underside of his arm, close to elbow. Possibility is he can fire several smaller shells (2-3... max.4), after which it takes time to again reload. His overall performance, as cyborg he is faster than normal infnatry, or with the same speed => faster than heavy battlesuit units. Because of his full cybernetic body, he is very durable to all kinds of fire. His weakness is Tesla, and Prism. ANd ofcourse, chrono-weapons of legionaires and Kronos ship. He cna be normally teleported by Chronosphere, but Iron Curtain still can kill him. Immunity to radiation, when damaged probably can keep his speed, lack of AA defense. Can swim, using some devices and mechanicsm in his legs (propellers in foots), literally making him an submarine. If he can attack while in water, I dont know. For dogs, he would also immune, as they cant kill him by biting into his metallic body :D Hazza-the-Fox 14:06, September 6, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Problem is, technically speaking, for a gun to fit between a mechanical elbow joint and wrist joint in a fake human arm, we're talking about a gun only half a foot long, so there wouldn't be much EM focus on the rounds :P So I think for anything mounted in someone's arm, it would have to be something like a surprise fletchette gun (with explosive tags attached, or possibly Virus poison darts?); It would imply something extravagant, but something the Soviets *could* have given to anybody- except probably wouldn't be so deadly were it not in Volkov's capable hands. It would make sense as sharpened darts could easily fit inside an arm, and do a lot of damage to light targets. On everything else, he can bomb, like a commando. I think a railgun would be awesome for his external weapon instead; he would plug it into his own power supply (draining power from his legs, reducing mobility, possibly defense) and can shoot through several units at a time. Alternatively, the railgun is simply a sniper rifle with a higher rate of fire (more to do with his cyborg recoil tolerance and senses to quickly acquire a new shot); Possibly, in this mode he can shoot air units (being a cyborg he could certainly calculate the shots). The shots kill most infantry in a single hit, do some reasonable damage to everything else. Alternatively, it could be the Virus' poison dart gun instead? We would of course need to explain why this weapon is only effective in Volkov's hands, as opposed to a Tesla Trooper, Tank crew or grunt (barely more than a regular sniper rifle). Immunities- definitely agree; He would be immune to mind control (he arguably might already BE under mind control through his implants)- dogs of course would be no threat. I think the question is- would his weapons be so effective against heavy infantry? (Tesla Troopers and Chrono Legionairres)? I think it would add a bit of a nice sobering twist if a mere Soviet battlesuit, or a rival battlesuited cyborg, were actually almost his rivals. VolteMetalic 14:32, September 6, 2011 (UTC): And I thought you are not that big nitpick :D Why wont a guy has a mini-coilgun (which is in essence railgun, only uses different method of propelling projectiles, alternative name is Gauss Cannon) in his arm? :) Especially when the gun can roll out of the elbow while the whole hand/wrist moves out of the way. The coils running past the barrel will be simply synchornized to propell the shell. I really dont see any problem with this. Damn, when there can be guys capble of decimating armies by simple thoguht, huge magnetic projectors which can target and pull one specific enemy and device capable of transporting you into great distances instantly, why there cant be a hyper-vellocity gun of the size of human arm? Yes, I forgot mind-control. And yes, this could work, that it cna take time for him to take down battlesuits infantry. Hazza-the-Fox 02:12, September 7, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Sadly this is the one subject I have to nitpick heavily on; It needs to explain why Volkov's attacks are better than the other units, why the Soviets can't make more cyborgs like Volkov, why they don't just make Volkov's guns and give them to their Tesla Troopers (Who are built for these kinds of guns themselves)- or why they aren't making bigger versions of guns for their Devastators. My explanations for the other units is that Psi implants only work on people that already have natural psychic abilities (thus limiting supply): Chrono devices won't work without computer-assisted cyborg humans (already of high mathematical caliber) to work out the complex algorithms (without these, the devices can neither teleport, and are harmless against an enemy): and the Magnets are massive engines attached to huge mobile reactors (the magnetism is volatile and separted from the main power grid). Its the same reason why a commando can blow up a whole structure but a Devastator needs to shoot at it several times- that logically, the commando can properly plant an explosive on the weakpoints, while the Devastator is just shelling the armored surface. Considering the Soviets have been forced to resort to equipping the heaviest guns their soldiers and tanks can handle, and are making a corps of battle suit troopers to use more advanced (and heavy) weapons; it makes them look silly when the manufacturer decided to make 'better' stuff once only and not reverse engineer it back into the war effort; If the alternative, that a cyborg typically isn't that physically amazing despite the drastic costly surgery- but an extremely skilled cyborg man can use the prosthetics (not to mention typical weapons) in powerful ways nobody thought were possible, it would actually compliment the other units as being deadly- but Volkov even more deadly, by the unnerving factor of his perfected combination of advanced mind and prosthesis that nobody else can have, even if they became a cyborg too. VolteMetalic 05:48, September 7, 2011 (UTC): If this is what is bothering you, to explain it lore-wise, I have a solution for you. Make a Soviet scientist, the biggest genius ever seen (in Soviet, even surpassing Nikolai Tesla, or even use Tesla), who was a Soviet equivalent of Allies' Einstein, who developed himself the entire Volkov's body and its weapons and mechanisms. Also Volkov is as you now suggested a perfect combination, who can control the body to its finest. However, before the Soviets could gain the blueprints of the cyborg body and mini-Gauss cannon, this scientist died in flames and all his research as well. (the house has started burning). Being it that it was another scientist, too afraid of what mass-production would cause, jealous scientist, secret Allied operation to assassinate or just a pure accident, I will leave that up to you. It is the same as Iron Man (film), where Stark Corporaion (or what is tis name) has a large arc reactor, Tony Stark manages to make a mini arc reactor in cave, and noone beside him is capable of doing it too. Its simple but effective explanation that Volkov is the only "prototype" of full-body cyborg, bearing the best weapons and technologies. :) Hazza-the-Fox 12:44, September 7, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox It IS a tempting scenario to explain that a far better scientist made him before meeting a disaster that also destroyed all his documentation; on the flipside I was actually thinking of a single-player mission (Allied- or possibly even a Soviet vs defector corps) where you are up against an enemy Soviet cyborg lab that makes Pariahs- but when attacked they start cranking out full-body cyborgs instead. These are little more than cybernetically-enhanced regular soldiers, armed with massive machineguns, they move extremely fast, and take about as much damage as a Desolator (their prosthetic bodies and skin provide armor protection- though not as much as the massive mechanized shells the Tesla Troopers wear). After (barely) repelling these things (or perhaps making progress towards the labs); they unleash Volkov- a cyborg who is not only a slightly better model with customized gear- but aside is a professional soldier perfectly primed to his new interface. He runs at faster speeds, takes more damage (both because his armor is better- but mainly because he's smarter and takes cover), and his guns are customized and gadgeted up to his precise killing needs. I still think some kind of long-ranged armor-piercing rifled (possibly Gauss) cannonette as his deploy weapon is the best, he slings it over his back when not using it (doesn't look too out of place with a trench-coat). It would make a lot of sense as his gun only- infantry would take ages to prime it, vehicles wouldn't aim as well with it (it's lower caliber anyway), but this guy simply points and fires at the right spots- acting as a long-range weapon, that unlike snipers, he can simply fire again and again. It kills infantry, and does almost as much damage as a Mauler against tanks (but he reloads it faster). His arm weapon I still like the 'silent killer' surprise gun- it just reinforces an element of sophisticated assassin. Plus, shooting out long sharpened spikes makes sense- as they can fit into a small space- but are devastating. He just needs to be closer to shoot them. (and this is actually a real weapon- the Austrian gun company Styer has made a gun that shoots metal spikes instead of bullets) VolteMetalic 14:10, September 7, 2011 (UTC): ... *resigned sigh* Fine than, do it your way, but than remove the arm-weapon toally. When its not a main weapon, its boring as "suprise weapon". Hazza-the-Fox 10:32, September 9, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Wait! Scrap my entire last bit of complaining- I actually had an awesome brainwave and thought of something awesome for the arm guns that fits perfectly; The Plasma-launchers you mentioned a while ago for other potential units; why don't we give those to him instead? *A cyborg could have power generators in every limb and joint in his body to contribute the charge (he's basically a walking reactor). Establishing that it's simply a more complicated adaptation to the Tesla Troopers' portable Tesla gun mostly pumping energy from reactors across other parts- the gun can be tiny (and the gun wouldn't recoil so there's no need for mechanisms). Projectile weapons (general ballistic or gauss) would require more space, but an energy weapon transmits its currents via wires, so it can be any shape. *The technology fits perfectly (because plasma is actually the very element that Tesla bolts, lightning, and ion weaponry all are)- the only difference is a cybernetic-enhanced AI could manage the minute energy calculations to magnetically seal a large dose of Tesla into a stable sphere, and to propel it- thus no intensity is lost in trying to shoot an arc of the energyy over a short distance like typical Tesla (and explains its damage- essentially half a Tesla-Tank bolt fired at longer ranges). Thus we have a weapon system that can hide vital components in an arm, can only be used by a cyborg and is clearly something difficult and expensive to set up- and most importantly, creates an ominous forebearer to the NOD cyborg commando? (in rough function, that is) ..... thoughts? By the way- I'll be on a short trip for two weeks, so if there's anything left we want any groundwork on, we better start making some more discussions this week- after that there will be a notable absense (though I'll try to get into this site on the hotel computers) VolteMetalic 13:10, September 9, 2011 (UTC): i am... amazed. You dont liked railgun for not giving enough space for projectile to shoot, and you suggest a weapon which requires an energy output of a structure. Also, just a point, the plasma weapon should be also a special kind of beam weapon, not an energy ball, because there will be no way of how to keep its shape without assistance of magnetic field. Which requires another source of energy. Unless you want a cyborg of the size of small mech, this is not possible. Than the railgun rifle is the only option against which you dont have anything, as its your idea, and it reminds me Ravenshaw from C&C Renegade. So he is a normal cyborg with a rifle, than great sci-fi cyborg with arm-gun. Hazza-the-Fox 00:20, September 10, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Actually it is possible to keep the shape of the energy sphere independently without extra power- its a scientific phenomenon called "Ball lightning" where a mass of lighting (plasma) somehow keeps its own spherical shape and is able to linger for extended periods of time (rather that discharge instantly and disappear). It is also is able to move around. All these reasons why are not quite known to science- despite some simple, vauge recreations being made in labs. Thus the energy itself is not a problem as it is the actual charge already made that is sustaining itself and keeping its own shape- most likely the flow of its magnetic fields are precise enough to keep redirecting the energy inward. Eventually the field fails on its own after a time and explodes. (this is indeed where the inspiration for the 'plasma gun' as we know it came from) Theoretically, the Tesla Troopers already have this weapon; the Tesla discharge, the magnetic projectors to get it to flow along a stream (contained in an arm-mounted gun), and the (massive portable) power supply- they simply don't have the means and quantum-physical skill to coordinate the energy into a precise, self-contained mass before projecting it out. VolteMetalic 07:26, September 10, 2011 (UTC): "Ball Lightning" is one of the things science dont understands at all. How it is created, why it moves on its own, why it fissappears. They dont know anything about it. I am strongely agaisnt it. When I suggested a arm-gun firing shells, you were against it and instead suggested railgun rifle. And now you are suggesting to replace the arm-gun, which is not that hard to make, with a plasma gun using thing which is totally unknown, total black hole, for the modern science, with something what is hundred times more comples and harder than an arm-gun I suggested earlier. Hazza-the-Fox 02:37, September 11, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Hmmmm- well I'm out of ideas- oh well, we can get back to him later anyway.